[CLUG-chat] OT: [Fwd: [pm] RIAA + Kazaa]

Angelo Zanetti binc2 at ctech.ac.za
Thu Oct 2 10:06:22 SAST 2003

Programmers do get paid regardless of whether the product is pirated or

Also with regard to stealing a DVD from a shop or downloading it they are
both loosing profit so there isnt too much difference, because at the end of
the day all companies depend on profit for survival!!


-----Original Message-----
From: clug-chat-bounces at clug.org.za
[mailto:clug-chat-bounces at clug.org.za]On Behalf Of Jonathan Carter
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:50 AM
To: Discussions, Chats and Trivia
Subject: Re: [CLUG-chat] OT: [Fwd: [pm] RIAA + Kazaa]

On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 02:27, Benjamin Gay wrote:
> Dear Thomas,
> Please find my comments inline
> <snip>
> > You are standing on a "moral high ground" and your statment is
> > unassailable, but I don't think getting "reamed" is actually the ideal
> > solution.
> I think there needs to be consequences for actions. At the moment its a
> crime with no perceived consequence. Philosophicaly there is not a huge
> difference from leaching a DVD or nicking one from the local store (I
> be oversimplifying a bit here, but bare with me). Most users dont have a
> problem leaching the latest DVD, but would never dream of stealing one
> the store. One of the reasons why you are not going to steal it from the
> store is you can see a direct effect and there is a consequence, if you
> caught you will have a criminal record. People know that downloading them
> the net is wrong, but they make lame justifications and cary on doing it.
> This is not acceptable in my opinion.

I don't entirely agree with you, but you do have a point. It IS illegal
to redistribute music. And it IS wrong. And there are many people who
are ignorant towards this. I actually know people who are proud of their
pirated software. I use some pirate stuff too, but not because I want
to, but because I can't afford it right now. As soon as I can, I'll buy
that editing software that I've been using, I'll buy the music I've been
listening too, but in the meantime I don't feel that I should feel
guilty about it. I'm not going to hell for it either. And it's not the
same as stealing a DVD from a shop (okay I should actually bear with
you), in a shop the shop is going to suffer a loss, if you copy a DVD,
the retailers/record companies only loose the profit.

> > There's a lot of negative sentiment towards the RIAA because
> > of this approach, and I suspect that it's just going to drive peer
> > networks deeper underground.
> Im sure a lot of people dont like the security guard at the super store
> he nab's them for shoplifting either. Whilst I agree with you that the
> is not always the poster-child for the music industry they are presented
> with a problem. Incidently I don't see P2P as the problem here.  A P2P
> network just makes it very easy to pirate a large vollume of information.
> People have pirated before P2P networks and Im sure they will continue to
> so in the future. At the end of the day people need to be educated. They
> need to know that they should not be stealing and that if they do steal
> there will be a consequence for there actions.


> > When we were students it was common to make tapes of our records, and in
> > this way I was exposed to a cornucopia of music. When I started working
> > though, I decided that I could afford to buy records (and later CDs) so
> > I left the old tapes behind and bought the music I liked. Unfortunately,
> > what happened though, was that I was no longer exposed to new and
> > interesting music because I had to be a bit more conservative. The
> > result is that over the years I've bought less and less, and my interest
> > in music has waned, so both the industry and I have lost out...
> >
> > What I'd like to do is get hold of lots of music like the old days, and
> > then just buy the CDs of the stuff I like. This is illegal however, so
> > we have a stalemate, because I really don't want to get reamed.
> Not realy. There are a lot of sites that allow you to stream music and to
> purchase from them (msn.com, apple.com etc). Heck there are sites where
> can purchase a single song if you want to. There are also sites where
> is free (such as mp3.com). The issue here is that the copyright holder of
> the song gets to choose whether or not they want to give the song away for
> free. You as the end-user dont have the right to make that decision on the
> copyright holders behalf.

Yes, no one can argue that.

> > >From this perspective my view is that the music industry is doing more
> > harmf than good, so I can't say that I'm sympathetic to their cause; I
> > would be if I could buy a CD at an affordable price, but the current
> > cost of CDs mitigates strongly against speculative buying. I guess the
> > Music Industry Millionaires don't see it that way though.
> I agree that CD's are expensive. Personally I tend to stream a lot of
> and then purchase individual songs that I like. This works well for me but
> wouldn't necessarily work well for others. I understand the resentment, I
> just don't agree with people pirating.
> Anyway that's my rather drawn out 2c worth
> Benjamin

What I find disgusting, is people who look down on me because I use
OpenOffice, and they use a pirated version of MS-Office. Some people
really have no moral integrity. They'd rather use a pirate version of
something than use a free alternitive. Even though I'd like to develop
open source software in the future, I hate the idea of programmers
working thousands of hours on software, only for some silly idiot to go
and pirate it. It's about recognition too. Programmers deserve to get

Another thing that I resent the record companies for, is what they are
doing to our radio stations. If you look at KFM since 1999 and 5fm since
the beginning of this year, they've gone so heavily commercialized that
they're not even worth listening to anymore. Now if they fsck my
favourite stations up, I am certenly entitled to garnish away a mere
slice of their profits. Call it vigilanti-pirating if you want, but I
hate the record companies like Hitler hate the Jews.


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